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in the metaverse what are you guys planning for 2023 -up interview yat siu jan 2023
1:19
broad Direction basically focusing on everything around digital property rights which is basically the main
1:25
emphasis you know from our perspective : we believe that digital property is at the center
of everything in the open metaverse so we're built in a non-fungible token to play a key role because they're the way in which you can own digital property rights and so from that perspective we're looking to
continue to build out these businesses --I think one of the things that's maybe different from four or five
years ago when we started investing is that the maturity and the stage of the companies involved in obviously much
deeper right now so even by the end of 2020 there were less than 200 000 people in the world who actually owned
an NFT obviously that's changed in the last couple of years right and now we know that number obviously is in the
2:19
millions of users and continues to accelerate particularly through gaming so that means basically
2:24
everything that we continue to invest in is all around sort of what can construct more Network effects on these
2:30
non-legical tokens as well as bringing more users into the nft space as in additional property rights so that
2:36
continues to be the emphasis and we're building in um but I think one difference would be is that there'll be more emphasis on the
2:42
working and investing in companies that can bring in let's say people who are not in web 3 basically into the web 3
2:48
space as opposed to really maybe 400 years ago really trying to build more into the native let's say blockchain
2:54
slash sort of crypto world that's probably the main difference so yeah Sue when you and your team sit
3:01
down and really look at what's happening in metaverse right now a lot of a lot of uh integration into traditional
3:07
businesses that are trying to find their way into using blockchain and some of the tool sets for what how nfts might be
3:13
used in the future what do you think is the potential growth size in terms of the addressable market for metaverse in
3:20
general that can include gaming nfts if you look out on the horizon say over the
3:26
next few years into 2030. so I think one of the I mean it really
3:32
depends on you know well from my perspective obviously we're very bullish uh some of uh predictions in the market
3:38
I think even McKinsey for instance and other ones have predicted that the market will grow to five trillion dollars in size our perspective actually
3:45
is that it's actually all together too small but let me sort of first indicate why that is the case right
3:50
um and that has to do with the fact that you know we believe that digital copyrights is going to have the same effect as it had in the physical world
3:57
right in other words you know our belief basically is that the digital world today is feudal in the sense that there
4:04
is no property rights we don't own anything and things like Capital formation and all these things are impossible which is also the reason why
4:10
if you look at for instance the digital world today uh in web 2 for instance you know we're literally worth only sort of
4:16
you know sales on the dollar right advertising our pool user sort of user Revenue that's generated is worth very
4:23
very little again relative terms which is I think basically how you know a sort of rental economy works but if you
4:29
actually then take this parallel into actual ownership and we're not talking about that 10 or 20 increase here we're
4:34
talking about you know factors of growth that are 30 to 50x right so put that all together into into sort of you know
4:41
where we think the world is going and the fact that we are basically already primarily spending time in the digital
4:46
world you know we actually think this is a multi-multi trillion dollar space and you know in in sort of the midst of
4:54
long-term future you know I think the entire all of our sort of economic activity will anyway exist in the
4:59
metaverse and therefore this is worth tens of trillions of dollars over over the uh sort of medium to long term
5:06
um now you take a look for instance just at the gaming industry right it's a 200 million dollar industry uh last year
5:12
of which basically more than half of it came spending in verb sort of virtual
5:17
items which are not items that people own this is a crazy thing right people are spending over 100 billion dollars a
5:24
year on digital Goods that they do not own so it's a hundred billion dollar Plus Rental economy now what happens
5:30
when you take a rental economy and move it into an ownership economy you know if
5:36
you talk about you know sort of mimicking sort of the effects that we have in the physical world that is 2030x
5:42
just the gaming industry alone it would be a multi-trillion dollar space already never mind what happens to all other
5:48
Industries which we think will add to the effect of uh of of sort of the value that happens when you introduce actual
5:55
property rights so there's a couple things there I want to unpack we'll talk about a little bit about the gaming uh industry and and
6:02
whether or not we'll see an evolution truly to web3 and blockchain because there is there is some pushback from
6:07
traditional gaming and Studios uh we talked to a lot of game makers here that have come over from web 2 are building
6:13
now in web3 looking at metaverse as a new platform a mechanism for really
6:18
building entertainment and gaming but yet at the same time there is a certain
6:24
aspect around the gamers themselves that have continued to kind of push back on them and we'll talk a little bit about
6:29
that I want to jump over your top projects uh so this this is a chart that kind of goes into
6:35
um where the potential growth is here obviously metaverse is kind of focused in uh quite heavily here uh and and you
6:44
can kind of see the gaming sector this is a mutable coming in infrastructure um what social might play into this this
6:50
again was looking at 2022 that was coming from massari's Stadium Ryan selkis over there does a good job with
6:56
this then you get into the funds with Investments and you see all of the additional uh you know mechanisms that
7:03
are investing in this sector at the same time when you go down and look at I think it's a little yeah most
7:09
active investors right here you guys of course being number one uh Shima comes in digital currency group x21 Spartan
7:15
hashed Etc so you can see a lot of these my question to you is when and I think
7:20
for the most part people know that annamoca repositioned from what was a
7:25
two billion dollar fund into a one billion dollar fund somewhat relevant to what the current market situations are
7:32
but when you look at this out in 2023 do you feel like this is still a growth
7:38
year for metaverse so I think it's going to be a growth here for metaverse for many years to
7:44
come still um obviously we'd have to talk about the metrics in terms of how we Define growth because there's some parallels around
7:51
how sort of when you look at for instance the.com bubble when that sort of burst in terms of IPO prices
7:56
fundamentally though it can change the number of people that were joining the internet the growth was still happening
8:01
people were using email more people using you know basically e-commerce more and people were doing all these things
8:06
more but of course the prices may have run ahead of itself if you look at you know back in you know and then you know
8:13
my own experience you know I was actually with the previous company our place you know what we're building back
8:18
in the early internet days and one of the interesting things was I said we used to joke about sort of you know you
8:23
know all you know people are sort of you know buying pet products online that seems like a silly idea I think pets.com and so on but you know what that's what
8:29
we do today yeah so and and many of the businesses that you know we thought that
8:35
basically might have been too early which they were actually turned out to be that way anyway right so everything
8:40
we do online many of the businesses that failed basically back in the day actually fundamentally were maybe the
8:46
right idea but maybe just a little bit too early I think some of that sort of some of that is playing out a little bit I think
8:53
in the in the web 3 space as well or but because the token element basically creates an element where the capital
8:59
side of things may have run ahead right so if you look at 2021 and you compare it to 2022 for instance you say oh look
9:06
at that right the beginning of 2032 versus where it ended up that looks like basically it may have come down in
9:12
terms of value right but when you basically measure that against you know really just even the last sort of two
9:18
and a half years and then four years or even six years or even eight years then generally speaking it's been a chart
9:24
where it shows that has been growth because fundamentally users are still entering the space and so so I think
9:30
it's it's all a matter of sort of perspective that you take from from the timing standpoint now in terms of the
9:36
value of what we're looking to remains here first of all you know I think valuations themselves have come down
9:41
into the market in terms of fear terms um you know this is an important metric to understand like for instance when you
9:47
look at the prices of a four day right generally speaking it's around 80 East you know maybe 75 or sometimes you know
9:53
90 East depending that price actually hasn't changed what has changed is the price of Eve so from that perspective
10:00
again you see that uh the sort of let's call it in the more native currencies uh
10:05
it would actually continue to maintain its value but the price of these basically has come down and therefore it
10:11
appears from the outset from Fear perspectives that has come down but actually again if you look at for instance um not just in terms of the
10:17
volume of trading the activity in the space last year close to I think it was 22 billion dollars of nft sales took
10:25
place in 2022 which by the way is very similar to 2021 in terms of fear terms
10:31
so what happened well in 2021 there was a higher sort of theater sales value
10:37
because of currency values we have of increase but the actual quantity and users engagement and so on that happened
10:43
2022 actually continued to be quite strong and you had activity also in the multiple chains you know in 2021 also
10:49
you had almost all sales only happen on open sea but in 2022 you had magic Eden
10:54
you had x2i2 you had blur you had you know even unit swap got into the nft
10:59
game right so so everything basically sort of grew and became more diverse and more competitive as a space but to me
11:06
these are all great signals or that's developing all right so again back to back to your point is is that your
11:14
thinking is that we're already starting to see a pretty heavy adoption level event that's occurring right now within
11:21
businesses that are trying to figure out models in which nft integration utility
11:26
use case what do you think would be the next layer when you think about it so a
11:31
brand like Starbucks well let's just say Nike and Starbucks are the two poster children to look at with artifact and
11:38
Nike they they clearly seem to go be going the fashion route with Starbucks it's more about Community loyalty
11:45
something that they're trying to create around the existing kind of uh digital ecosystem that they already have
11:52
what do you think is going to be the next piece that will really kind of answer some of the deeper questions for
11:59
these you know big brands or small Brands to say this is the next step for us web 3 is it and here's why
12:07
so many of the things that I think the most powerful aspect of why I went through matters for every brand it
12:14
doesn't matter big or small even personal Brands you know even small restaurants for that matter if you will
12:19
right um is the fact that through web3 actually they are going to be able to sort of uh accrue different ownership of
12:26
the customers that they're serving and one of the reasons that nfts for instance have become so powerful is in
12:32
the form of these membership nfts that's sort of one of those Beginnings but really what the management fee is is the
12:38
ability for brand to basically build out your own social graph except now you know who those customers are and now you
12:45
can reach them and they can reach you and you don't need an intermediary like a Facebook for instance where you know
12:50
if you have to retarget your customers you have to pay Facebook for them because actually turns out that customer is never yours or that Instagram handle
12:57
that has you know maybe a hundred thousand or a million followers for instance you know again it's not actually yours you don't have control
13:02
over that in web3 that completely changes that narrative but it also does something else which is that you now
13:08
able to sort of peer into actually what that person does so you may not necessarily know this person's name but
13:14
through the wallet you can actually understand sort of what this person might be interested in and what he's purchasing or what he's doing and and I
13:21
think this part is where it becomes really really powerful because now I actually have the ability to sort of
13:27
look at everything that the customer is doing and I can address that customer directly but it also means that someone
13:32
else can also basically compete for that same Customer because he or she could see basically the same data that I can
13:39
so it creates a completely different framework which means that forces actually every brand to participate in
13:45
this in this way because you can't sort of not not enter that space because
13:50
everyone else is benefiting from this and frankly when Nike and Adidas and those big brands are entering the space
13:55
all of the other brands already looking at it and say okay how do I play in this one you know one of the sort of sort of
14:01
biggest sort of new job descriptions that we're seeing around is like chief metaverse officer nft expert foreign
14:21
Specialists and sort of you know app designers and so on it's kind of the same same phase where people are sort of
14:27
really trying to sort of find that talent and it's hard as well because there's not that much talent around it people most people that have that are
14:34
into space Maybe in the space for the last six months maybe one year I mean even if you're in you know if you've
14:40
entered in the beginning of 2022 in the nft space um you know you're already considered
14:45
somewhat of an expert right uh if you think about it right so so that's the that's the space where it isn't and so
14:51
so there's a this is a dearth of time for the time here which I think obviously will change over time uh and
14:57
so so that's all happening and one of the reasons you might not feel that there's as much activity as it could be
15:02
in strength and they're all still trying to figure it out because who are they going to talk to right and we have so
15:08
many incoming requests to sort of say can you help us can you work with us and practically we can't handle all of them
15:13
right so we pass into our portfolios but even they can't handle the demand that's out there one of the things you'll find
15:19
is that in our space everyone is still hiring for the for the for the most part and is trying to grow the space because
15:25
there's so much demand yeah it does remind me a lot of kind of the birth of what happened with the
15:31
internet when we started seeing really interesting websites being developed for the first time I think every business
15:36
was out there trying to figure that out I think you're right it has that kind of uh unique signature that is starting to
15:43
lean into what what the new technology might be going forward I want to talk about onboarding because this is one of
15:49
the sections and areas of I think as we start to see because we study every nft
15:54
drop there is on platforms we look at all sorts of Integrations into toys and
16:00
gaming and one thing that I've noticed more and more evident is there are
16:05
either really slick onboarding tool sets in place or there are not and it feels
16:11
like that seems to be the one barrier to entry that could cause a little bit of a Slowdown
16:16
how soon do you think we'll really start to see onboarding so much more slick the
16:23
whether it's the UI in the ux that just makes it easy for an average person to
16:28
just jump into this space with whatever brand that they might be you know visiting at the time
16:33
so I think we're seeing that already developed the technology to do so actually is there when you think about
16:39
sort of custodial wallets for instance to make the onboarding experience easy and and I see very similar to sort of
16:46
how the internet developed if you remember in the 90s we actually used to have Dominic modems and we used to sort
16:51
of you know connect and even with Broadband we had to First sort of you know basically type in a username and a
16:57
password and actually it was a pretty unfriendly uh unfriendly sort of uh sort of onboarding experience back in the
17:03
early days of the internet and today you know when you go online you don't even think about it right you just just you
17:09
know call someone you know uh they basically just install the line and you have the internet oh somehow magically
17:14
appears I think that's basically where it's gonna eventually end up in terms of the sort of the ease of it but there is
17:21
one thing that you know we want to make sure that people don't lose sight of which is custody or self-custody of your
17:27
assets right understanding how that works and so I think the barrier here really is around understanding that part
17:32
because what we don't want to see happen is that everyone basically just sort of hands over the assets to sort of you
17:38
know third parties and doesn't know or understand that actually self-custody is
17:43
actually a powerful reason as to how you can get these sort of network effects and benefit from them because you know
17:48
it's because of the fact that you had to have some consider data assets that you have this Freedom right and so so that's
17:54
the part that's important and we think for instance gaming will play an important part in educating that and so
17:59
this is really the tension here between how do we basically roll the space as large as we can but still have people
18:06
sort of understand respect and sort of appreciate that self-custody aspects the
18:11
fact that you actually want to have sort of decentralization as opposed to too much centralization because if we hand
18:17
over all of our assets to to any company for that matter even even let's say someone like ourselves we actually go
18:23
against the mission and we will actually end up creating you know a sort of Monopoly effects that we think would be
18:29
detrimental having said that you can't actually build these natural narrative effects if you build inside a wall
18:34
Gardener right which means that naturally that's a good point yeah that's a good point because you're
18:40
you're exactly right there are some Brands out there that are building somewhat in the same framework that
18:46
they've built in web 2 which are very wild garden you know approaches we haven't seen Apple jump into this space
18:52
just yet I still believe that there's going to be a play Here by Apple but when you look at Apple in general and
18:59
and just what they've been able to do to deter Innovation it feels like when it
19:04
comes to web3 and nft use cases in in and within apps obviously we know the
19:09
epic games situation and kind of the dynamic around that you guys have your own story of mobile gaming that also uh
19:17
kind of ran into some challenges with apple do you think this is something that the majors like apple meta maybe
19:25
Google even though I don't necessarily see them completely playing into this but meta and apple could definitely be
19:30
in the crosshairs for massive explosion through Mass adoption but I fear that
19:37
it's going to fall into a Walled Garden where we aren't going to see you know self-custody uh scenarios play out where
19:44
do you think that will and how do you think that will affect the market so generally speaking for incumbent
19:51
players like uh sort of facebook slash meta or or apple all those companies I
19:56
think they're facing your traditional innovators dilemma meaning that one of the challenges that they want to have is
20:02
you know they have to open up their platforms to benefit from this uh to grow with us but that means disrupting
20:07
and basically a part of that business or a major part of the business that has always been around and centralization
20:12
and control I mean after all if the App Store suddenly became completely open um
20:18
participated and there was an actual Democratic process right um then then you know you know what does
20:25
it mean for apple as a company for instance that would be really difficult but one could also argue and I think
20:31
this is the whole point about sort of what epic is arguing for and many other companies is that to what extent is it appropriate for companies like apple to
20:38
have the kind of control that they have after all people have ruled on internet service provider as for instance to say
20:44
well you can't actually restrict access either because it is an element of a public good right so you know obviously
20:49
there's there's debates for and against right um but I actually think what's going to happen is as as it always
20:55
happens is that sort of you know good old capitalism and Market forces are going to basically Force these changes
21:00
so basically you either sort of you know you have to survive otherwise you will die and the the economics are pretty
21:07
straightforward one of the reasons why we think inference is really difficult for Facebook sort of to be able to sort
21:13
of build a closed metaverse in the in in the longer long term I know I made this comment where I said you know even 10
21:19
billion dollars a year isn't going to be enough is because it hasn't got to do with how much they're investing in space
21:24
it has to do with the end user as an end user I have you know to build on meta I
21:30
have to you know basically surrender close to 50 of all my value I think it's 47.5 that they have to tax why do they
21:37
have to charge us tax because they have to rebuild this entire infrastructure that web3 already has that has already
21:43
shared across the network remember every user that's using web3 is already sharing the cost of gas exactly funding
21:50
the infrastructure right and you know many people sometimes I think missed the point to say well there's no gas costs on them you know better there's no gas
21:56
costs on this other watching but who cares if that particular system doesn't make you that kind of money right I mean
22:01
we're happily Living in America versus Africa or happily living in the in in
22:06
and you know Europe as opposed to some other place around the world we have to pay 20 30 or if you look at Scandinavian
22:13
countries you know 50 or 60 taxes why because we can generate the you know
22:18
more value there and we get you know come into its services for it but you know when you basically are paying
22:24
simply 30 to 40 to 50 just to exist on the platform that's just way too much which basically is the highest kind of
22:32
tax that we know what happens in countries that over tax their citizens lower economic activity lower value
22:38
right and that's basically uh what's happening here so that means that metal
22:44
or apple for that matter if they want to play in the space and actually be a player but still charge the same tax
22:49
they need to provide a service equivalent that is worth paying that and that's going to be hard but for instance
22:56
on Sandbox we we can build a really big business by only charging five percent right so you know that's between you
23:03
know so so how do you if 95 of the value goes to the the uh end user then you have to have a
23:12
really compelling use case to say well you got to pay me 50 of the value which means that they have to be able to show
23:18
much more value growth uh in as a result of that which you know is going to be challenging so I think
23:24
the I think uh they have to they have to sort of go open or or unfortunately uh
23:29
they will just go by the wayside what would you say is the probability of that happening dude I mean I feel like
23:35
Apple's got a strategy in place whether or not they're open enough to really kind of change their methodology of how
23:41
they're going to run their business units in the future still questionable meta I feel like might be a little bit
23:47
more in the camp of finally an a network that may show some windows for opening who would you say of those two that
23:54
might come to the table first oh I would say definitely uh Facebook meta would come to the table much sooner
24:01
one of them first of all they themselves are feeling the pinch of being platform dependent on Apple right right so
24:07
there's there is this case of uh sort of the enemy of the enemies my friend
24:12
um and there's a little bit of that situation where they find themselves remember also though unlike Apple uh
24:18
Mark Zuckerberg actually does understand the Wimpy space more than I think people appreciate he did try you know basically
24:24
cryptocurrency with liberal uh he's he's built the blockchain team that you know obviously he left because they weren't
24:30
able to sort of realize their blockchain dreams within Facebook but it basically burst basically platforms such as uh
24:36
such as atos and misting labs and so on right so so there's obviously an appreciation of sort of the blockchain
24:44
Technologies and what web3 can provide in in the meta sort of uh Universe versus an apple they're trying to figure
24:51
out a way to tax it or maybe even halt its growth or whatever that policy would be that are looking at it with you know
24:58
a much more sort of I guess a wary eye I would say um the one player to look for that I think is going to be an interesting one
25:03
is Google because Google hasn't really come out with you know with a position generally for and against you see that Google on
25:10
one side obviously has done stuff with you know a network validation and with
25:16
services and so on so there is the technical side that depends on embracing it um but when it comes to for instance the
25:22
platform whether it's Google play or you know what how does Google search think of this all these things you know you
25:27
you know that sort of broadly speaking Google actually does well the more open the network is right I mean it has to be
25:34
open for the search search engine to work right um and you know Facebook was actually very much a threat to Google because
25:41
actually they wouldn't allow it to be indexed and therefore you know basically Google no longer function uh it doesn't
25:47
function within the Facebook or for instance right so so in that sense you would say that shouldn't Google actually
25:52
be more open towards web free and I would say that philosophically and shipping is strongly aligned but again
25:57
they are an income in business they have business lens to protect so it's never a straightforward and so I think they
26:03
themselves are going through the innovators dilemma but all of the big players I think they have very much an incentive I think to build in web 3 more
26:10
so than maybe even the other two yeah I think this year will probably unveil some very interesting bedfellows
26:17
in in metaverse web 3 and what we'll see here uh in terms of advancements because listen we're at a kind of a Tipping
26:23
Point where early stage is going to have to be established right now by a lot of these incumbents that have you know
26:29
that's kind of been their DNA in the past I want to wrap up here with kind of a low medium high probability of where
26:38
you think these particular topics will be going on metaverse web 3 nfts uh
26:44
first I want to jump into uh gaming so when you just think about gaming web 2 Gaming and the traditional gaming
26:51
ecosystem that is today is that a low medium or high probability of moving
26:56
quickly into the blockchain Say by 2027.
27:02
oh I think it's high and okay all right and and but one of the things that um I
27:08
think uh depending on who your audience is is that you had mentioned earlier that this pushback by sort of you know
27:14
basically getting into German that is very much an American and slash Western narrative
27:19
um so to take a look for instance what's happening in Asia but every major Korean game company for instance is all in on
27:25
the matter already moving I mean yeah you know yeah in Japan as well I mean just just to be clear even the Prime
27:30
Minister of Japan in Japan actually has made web 3 and developers National agenda right uh when you look
27:37
at for instance Hong Kong traditionally Hong Kong people have looked at Hong Kong and said oh isn't that part of China and are they sort of against
27:43
crypto and so on well Hong Kong just launched their first Bitcoin and ethereum ETF about before the end of the
27:49
year uh and our financial secretary has just weak again reinforced the statement
27:54
that Hong Kong will be a virtual asset digital assets Hub and leader in the space right and has come up with virtual
28:01
asset policies to support that so you know so you have really an interesting situation where Asia is moving full
28:07
steam ahead and gamers in this part of the world are very much sort of open to
28:13
this and love the idea of owning additional assets whereas I think in the west there's some reservations around it
28:19
but I think it comes down to sort of again the concerns from free to play gaming was the same uh actually back in
28:25
2010 2011 free to play gaming was you know adopted in Asia first and many of the early Innovations in that space came
28:31
in Asia um and and in in in the west actually a lot of people resisted free to play
28:36
gaming you know they said oh this is going to corrupt gameplay you know people are going to be sort of you know
28:41
uh sort of it won't be as much fun and you know blah blah blah and of course today free to play gaming is the dominant form of gaming uh through
28:48
mobile gaming as opposed to uh as opposed to sort of you know the traditional subscription or sort of you
28:54
know pay for software so we think the same Evolution will happen I think there's one more thing to bear in mind here which is that in America in
29:00
particular there has been a shifting narrative uh which you know again maybe a decade ago I would not have thought
29:06
possible which is essentially amongst Young Americans there is a more and more anti-capitalist team
29:15
so when they look at the digital item ownership it's not that they reject ownership it's that they reject digital
29:22
capitalism because they're concerned that it's going to bring the same type of situations that they have in the
29:27
physical world well you know in the physical world capitalism has to work for me for me then why shouldn't work in the digital world and does it mean that
29:33
I certainly need to be able to afford a four day to play a game and that's the fear right they've been priced out of the physical world they don't want to be
29:40
priced out of the digital world yeah yeah I don't think that's true uh actually I think it's an opportunity
29:46
because the younger Generations understand digital space it's their moment if you will but it's this sort of
29:51
fear of the sort of um you know I guess uh sort of digital capitalism that they have that's what
29:57
they reject not digital ownership and that's part of the education whereas in Asia actually it's different uh in Asia
30:03
even though there's also inequity ownership and capitalism is very much celebrated they see that opportunity I
30:09
mean we can argue or we want about you know what system is China but you know I think China is pretty capitalist right
30:15
and and at the end of the day I would say that in Asia for instance the American dream is much more alive in the
30:22
world than it is in America and so I think that sort of colors perspective around why people are so open to nfts
30:29
and digital ownership and it's difficult and there's so much yeah the growth level has been you know through the
30:35
roots you know in terms of uh and we talk about the Pacific Rim especially just in Asia in general that has had
30:40
such such amazing growth uh the other low medium high would be ar VR and its
30:47
role in the metaverse and web 3 in the next few years by 2027 low medium high
30:53
medium I would say um some penetration
30:58
but to us uh VR and AR is a way in which the developers can be experienced but
31:05
isn't going to be the main way in which we basically enter the space so we believe for instance that the way we're
31:11
currently experiencing our digital ownership more digital platforms the world is already very very powerful you
31:16
know when you go to someone playing a game for instance you know on the screen or this mobile device or whatever it is
31:22
it's a pretty immersive experience already and it has doesn't have the same kind of restrictions as it does when you
31:28
basically use a sort of VR or ar these are all complementary and these are all powerful no question about it but we
31:35
don't think they're going to be the primary ways in which you experience they will be enhancing ways to experience veterans um and they and and
31:42
I think value will increase um for these activities because actually the value of these assets engaging is
31:49
already going to be so so high that essentially it starts to make sense right so for instance if you're owning
31:55
hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Assets in the metaverse then you're more likely to basically be sort of
32:01
engaging in VR and AR to experience those assets because you have basically skin in the game and you want to
32:07
experience it and grow in that space as opposed to AR and VR it's going to drive adoption for these assets everything is
32:13
going to be the other way radical it's going to be driven by the asset ownership uh where your VR will grow as
32:19
it will still be around whereas traditional gaming we think is going to drive actually a user adoption because
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they're already in this space they really have emotional attachments to digital assets um and and up to us basically is how is
32:32
is why sort of VR air is interesting but it's not going to be we think the dominant Narrative of the metaverse
32:38
which you know the companies like platforms like Facebook and meta would probably disagree on right but again I
32:43
would say you know we're not you know we're already in a kind of metaverse right now and that doesn't require us to
32:49
have sort of you know goggles uh uh what are your thoughts I mean just last question to you is you know the
32:56
investment categories that Anna mocha is is making in 23 and Beyond uh gaming you
33:03
guys have been kind of known for that uh what are your thoughts on just what we're seeing within the Avatar space
33:08
obviously with ready ready player me many of those types of functions we've seen a lot within the fashion sector
33:15
is there one particular area or a couple that you feel are potentially new breakout sectors
33:21
so you know we have a number of Investments within all these areas we talk about metaverse first Brands is an
33:26
area that we're particularly excited about because we think that's the ability to build the next Nike for instance or the next day uh whether this
33:33
is something you see with cool care so with Hugo Nets or you know all these type of developments and you know we ourselves are launching the mocha verse
33:39
which is sort of another sort of animal membership club which allows pacing of people to have access to our Universal
33:46
things which also comes with governance because one of the things that's interesting around sort of the classical
33:51
case of the the past sort of what's called Web to wave doing business is that the relationships that you have
33:57
with the customers is really as a consumer right so everything is about you know how do we sell you something
34:02
and how do you become you know a happy consumer right but in web 3 actually the relationship changes from a customer
34:09
consumer to a customer owner so effectively what happens every customer actually becomes a part of your
34:14
ecosystem they don't necessarily A shareholder but they actually are part of your ecosystem now they are a part of
34:21
of a team building and so how do we sort of inject sort of these elements of ownership rights whether it's governance
34:28
or areas of voting or that kind of stuff or even sort of decisions that they could be making as you would do in
34:33
traditional governance into these elements which is kind of what you're seeing happening in more and more of these projects and so that's that's one
34:40
one area of development and for instance so battles are really exciting for us not just because it sort of helps promote sort of the democratic principle
34:46
that exercises the Democratic muscle but actually it's a way in which people become much more engaged as we've seen
34:52
with Bitcoin for instance which is a doubt that we're involved in right now right um you know that type of stuff but
34:58
the other category that I think is that we have started to make moves in that we really like but has you know and I would
35:04
say we're typically not the traditional type of investor who does what others do we like to Define new categories as we
35:10
did with blockchain gaming is education now education is an interesting field
35:16
because education has been notoriously difficult to sort of break into right um but one of the reasons why everything
35:23
education is actually exciting these are the uh sort of let's say other areas
35:28
like music which we like as well we've done in an acquisition in that space um it's because it's already very decentralized right so it doesn't
35:34
actually have sort of an incumbent structure that you have to fight against because education is already fairly
35:40
decentralized but it's already a multi-trillion dollar space however it's
35:45
been really difficult to crack because in the past you know how do you sort of add value to that ecosystem and we decided that we
35:52
think the best way to begin this approach is like you do with creators but in this case who are the creators of the education space their teachers and
35:59
teachers have another element which is similar to when you think about what's happening in um in sort of the other
36:05
sort of areas that we focus on which is that there is an Arbitrage which is a teachers actually provide one of the
36:11
most important values to society but they are actually the perhaps one of the most underpaid relative to the services
36:17
that they offer to society right teachers are chronically underpaid yet they are sort of you know providing
36:22
really important services so combine all of that and you start sort of seeing the real potential of what happens when you
36:29
actually provide sort of Capital phone information and all the benefits of web3 into that ecosystem and we've seen this
36:34
with tinytap you know warm teachers who create content um you know as in the form of nfts that
36:40
are already earning income from this are not able to sell that but at a value as
36:46
if it was something that of ownership so instead of just getting a thousand dollars of you know rental value per
36:52
year they can now sell those for five to ten thousand dollars which you know for a teacher is life-changing money and all
36:59
of them are reinvesting back into this which is basically the beginning of a creative economy but within the teacher
37:05
infrastructure um so so that's another area we're really excited about and we'll build we'll build that but again you know it's
37:10
it's something that we're building and investing in it's not something that we can sort of you know um there's not
37:16
enough companies right yeah exactly right so so this is something that we are very hopeful on
37:21
um and we will build and Define these new markets as we have done with web3 gaming on four or five years ago very
37:26
cool stuff yasu been it has been great having you on I love uh I love diving in
37:32
deep on these kind of topics because I feel like you know what we're in the literally uh at the precipice of in
37:38
terms of really amazing growth web3 metaverse and what we're going to see in
37:43
blockchain uh developments around you know obviously the nft space and others so thanks again we definitely want to
37:49
get you back on the show as Anna mocha continues your growth path uh in 2023. thanks for coming on thank you for
37:55
having me excellent all right you guys are tuned in maybe on the podcast side of things right here make sure and jump over here
38:01
to the YouTube channel this is another great place for you to catch a lot of the graphics sometimes we do chart analysis and really dive deep here on
38:08
metaverse Insider as well if you haven't checked out our show techpath crypto do so uh just search Tech pack crypto on
38:15
your own podcast uh player or jump over to our YouTube channel at justpull Bear Network and you'll find us there if you
38:21
guys want to reach me it is out there on Twitter at Paul Baron we'll catch you next time right here on metaverse Insider
My dream: everyone experiences Harrison Owen OpenSpace After%20the%20Rage.pdf
IF SCHOOLS were child centric they would make age relevant interventions:
if anyone is illiterate at age 6 it only takes 90 days to change that - best of all a literate kid can be main helper in 20 minute session - see sunita gandhi
finacial literacy would be practicsed from age 8 - see aflatoun ( works in 100 countries
from age 10 pre-teens would have access to pfysical and mental health studies designed peer to peer -see Lancet
no kid would leave primary school without knowing how open space meetings/teamwork is facilitated
teachers would be celebrated for clarifying which skills involve experiential learning not classroom examination - while there is some recognition that music and sports involve practice, its shocking that coding isnt valued this way ..
==============
Do you have life-changing moment to share? - what was it and what did you think or do differently after it?
example until 9/11, i assumed that (good) futures are happening somewhere in the world and would be searched out so that all could communally replicate them; === 9/11 caused me to question whether global connectivity will give us time to find sustainable solutions for our kids- i became particulaly interested in places where good education leaps appeared but did not get app'd the world over - one example actually goes back to my favorite 1990s advances in schools that a small cliuster of new zealand schools pioneered - download it here https://oiipdf.com/download/the-learning-revolution
i welcome discussion of this book's parts at any time rsvp chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk if you have a solution every community that develops youth could be cooperational
in 1984our book with economist editors 2025report made the case for 40 year commitment to every child identifying own skils dashboard and maximising AI curation of this- we valued this as sustainability critical worldwide cooperation - we see no logic for changing this concern
== we live in an age where most up to half of knowhow of techforgood changes every 3 years - we needed mindsets for exploration not for being standard examined; a nation that makes its college students its largest debt class is likely to collapse economically socially environmentally if web3 is designed for celebrating sustainability cooperation; and if web3 is not designed for neough yout to linkin the first sustainability generation then we are all heading the way of the dodo
I am learn to learn
TECH - What is IT? and which exponential multipliers most impact human and natural futures?
AI >. silicon chip singularity (ie when one chip > one brain in pure analytical capacity) - science fictiion no moore
who programs the ai - the race to include lost voices eg girls- the world of statistics re=-examined like never before (eg previously mass statistics very weak at coding meaining from numbers)
Biotech >> Affective science (loveq and emotional intelligence remains human's unique edge over artificials for at least 10 more years!)
Some people say that Virtual or Augmented Reality has advanced at its best so far in last 12 months that there are hardly any qualified teachers only pioneering explorers- does this matter - well its VR which is your gateway to web3 - intead of just a mobile device you will like wear a visual sensor system; equally others argue that you shouldnt worry about how fast you put googles on - what you should want is to take back ownbership of what you spend time creating virually- look at the small print of the big platforms you probably dont own anything without them..maybe this is a generation issue bu interstingly the met-generation can now work on chnaging anything that old systems are destroying (eg climate) ...t
IOT which things will now have brains and be as mobile connected as you are
Crypto - can communities celebrate financiang their own most urgent sustainability cooperations? if they dont who wil?
Cyber >> Drone - opportunities and threats of public spaces- first in spaces like the arctic circle if we dont use drones we will get no warning before the big meltdown
-the mkist memorable western campus event i attended in 2010s was tufts colllaboratory summit convened mainly by arctic circle youth under 25;
one of the main debates how to help teachers in arctic circle schools empower their students to use virtual reality to visit other arctic circles schools communities; many of the changes and solutions are analogous; I am reminded by educators leading the compilation of virtual realty libraries of the DICE acronym - a reen might want to do something dangerous like climb everest, why not VR simulate that? there are impossible things a trainee doctor will never be able to travel inside a humans gut but that can be VR'd; there are catastropghic simulations - you would rid the world of bees just to test if donald is wrong about nature being more powerful than he is, you can simulate it; or the future of smart tourism may be curation of what a community is proudest of being visited for - this way ecotourism, cultural appreciation exchanges can be twinned to maximise celebration of each other- and by the way friends of the tourist can join in virtually- of corse this raises a metaverse question - that Hong Kong is leading the world on
being 100% public - good and bad hacs- note context matters - context 1 smart city context 2 isolated vilalge no moore context 3 make a huge land safe at borders
3D printing aka additive engineering
Big Data Small by market tech sector Leapfrogging
Nano cf einstein - to innovate science model more micro
Blockchain
Downloads from MIT Innovations journal
Volume 2
downloads library 1: MIT innovations journal special issue youth economics opportunities
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