1/3 most exciting maps of world tof co-creative imgineering I've ever seen - innovations.ning.com - #digitalcooperation families need2024-03-29T15:39:49Zhttps://innovations.ning.com/forum/topics/1-3-most-exciting-maps-of-world-to-make-i-ve-ever-seen?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI certainly need to be able t…tag:innovations.ning.com,2023-02-13:6537428:Comment:419972023-02-13T02:30:25.751Zchris macraehttps://innovations.ning.com/profile/s0neqm9lsoui
<p>I certainly need to be able to afford a four day to play a game and that's the fear right they've been priced out of the physical world they don't want to be<br></br> 29:40<br></br> priced out of the digital world yeah yeah I don't think that's true uh actually I think it's an opportunity<br></br>
29:46<br></br>
because the younger Generations understand digital space it's their moment if you will but it's this sort of<br></br>
29:51<br></br>
fear of the sort of um you know I guess uh sort of digital capitalism…</p>
<p>I certainly need to be able to afford a four day to play a game and that's the fear right they've been priced out of the physical world they don't want to be<br/> 29:40<br/>
priced out of the digital world yeah yeah I don't think that's true uh actually I think it's an opportunity<br/>
29:46<br/>
because the younger Generations understand digital space it's their moment if you will but it's this sort of<br/>
29:51<br/>
fear of the sort of um you know I guess uh sort of digital capitalism that they have that's what<br/>
29:57<br/>
they reject not digital ownership and that's part of the education whereas in Asia actually it's different uh in Asia<br/>
30:03<br/>
even though there's also inequity ownership and capitalism is very much celebrated they see that opportunity I<br/>
30:09<br/>
mean we can argue or we want about you know what system is China but you know I think China is pretty capitalist right<br/>
30:15<br/>
and and at the end of the day I would say that in Asia for instance the American dream is much more alive in the<br/>
30:22<br/>
world than it is in America and so I think that sort of colors perspective around why people are so open to nfts<br/>
30:29<br/>
and digital ownership and it's difficult and there's so much yeah the growth level has been you know through the<br/>
30:35<br/>
roots you know in terms of uh and we talk about the Pacific Rim especially just in Asia in general that has had<br/>
30:40<br/>
such such amazing growth uh the other low medium high would be ar VR and its<br/>
30:47<br/>
role in the metaverse and web 3 in the next few years by 2027 low medium high<br/>
30:53<br/>
medium I would say um some penetration<br/>
30:58<br/>
but to us uh VR and AR is a way in which the developers can be experienced but<br/>
31:05<br/>
isn't going to be the main way in which we basically enter the space so we believe for instance that the way we're<br/>
31:11<br/>
currently experiencing our digital ownership more digital platforms the world is already very very powerful you<br/>
31:16<br/>
know when you go to someone playing a game for instance you know on the screen or this mobile device or whatever it is<br/>
31:22<br/>
it's a pretty immersive experience already and it has doesn't have the same kind of restrictions as it does when you<br/>
31:28<br/>
basically use a sort of VR or ar these are all complementary and these are all powerful no question about it but we<br/>
31:35<br/>
don't think they're going to be the primary ways in which you experience they will be enhancing ways to experience veterans um and they and and<br/>
31:42<br/>
I think value will increase um for these activities because actually the value of these assets engaging is<br/>
31:49<br/>
already going to be so so high that essentially it starts to make sense right so for instance if you're owning<br/>
31:55<br/>
hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Assets in the metaverse then you're more likely to basically be sort of<br/>
32:01<br/>
engaging in VR and AR to experience those assets because you have basically skin in the game and you want to<br/>
32:07<br/>
experience it and grow in that space as opposed to AR and VR it's going to drive adoption for these assets everything is<br/>
32:13<br/>
going to be the other way radical it's going to be driven by the asset ownership uh where your VR will grow as<br/>
32:19<br/>
it will still be around whereas traditional gaming we think is going to drive actually a user adoption because<br/>
32:24<br/>
they're already in this space they really have emotional attachments to digital assets um and and up to us basically is how is<br/>
32:32<br/>
is why sort of VR air is interesting but it's not going to be we think the dominant Narrative of the metaverse<br/>
32:38<br/>
which you know the companies like platforms like Facebook and meta would probably disagree on right but again I<br/>
32:43<br/>
would say you know we're not you know we're already in a kind of metaverse right now and that doesn't require us to<br/>
32:49<br/>
have sort of you know goggles uh uh what are your thoughts I mean just last question to you is you know the<br/>
32:56<br/>
investment categories that Anna mocha is is making in 23 and Beyond uh gaming you<br/>
33:03<br/>
guys have been kind of known for that uh what are your thoughts on just what we're seeing within the Avatar space<br/>
33:08<br/>
obviously with ready ready player me many of those types of functions we've seen a lot within the fashion sector<br/>
33:15<br/>
is there one particular area or a couple that you feel are potentially new breakout sectors<br/>
33:21<br/>
so you know we have a number of Investments within all these areas we talk about metaverse first Brands is an<br/>
33:26<br/>
area that we're particularly excited about because we think that's the ability to build the next Nike for instance or the next day uh whether this<br/>
33:33<br/>
is something you see with cool care so with Hugo Nets or you know all these type of developments and you know we ourselves are launching the mocha verse<br/>
33:39<br/>
which is sort of another sort of animal membership club which allows pacing of people to have access to our Universal<br/>
33:46<br/>
things which also comes with governance because one of the things that's interesting around sort of the classical<br/>
33:51<br/>
case of the the past sort of what's called Web to wave doing business is that the relationships that you have<br/>
33:57<br/>
with the customers is really as a consumer right so everything is about you know how do we sell you something<br/>
34:02<br/>
and how do you become you know a happy consumer right but in web 3 actually the relationship changes from a customer<br/>
34:09<br/>
consumer to a customer owner so effectively what happens every customer actually becomes a part of your<br/>
34:14<br/>
ecosystem they don't necessarily A shareholder but they actually are part of your ecosystem now they are a part of<br/>
34:21<br/>
of a team building and so how do we sort of inject sort of these elements of ownership rights whether it's governance<br/>
34:28<br/>
or areas of voting or that kind of stuff or even sort of decisions that they could be making as you would do in<br/>
34:33<br/>
traditional governance into these elements which is kind of what you're seeing happening in more and more of these projects and so that's that's one<br/>
34:40<br/>
one area of development and for instance so battles are really exciting for us not just because it sort of helps promote sort of the democratic principle<br/>
34:46<br/>
that exercises the Democratic muscle but actually it's a way in which people become much more engaged as we've seen<br/>
34:52<br/>
with Bitcoin for instance which is a doubt that we're involved in right now right um you know that type of stuff but<br/>
34:58<br/>
the other category that I think is that we have started to make moves in that we really like but has you know and I would<br/>
35:04<br/>
say we're typically not the traditional type of investor who does what others do we like to Define new categories as we<br/>
35:10<br/>
did with blockchain gaming is education now education is an interesting field<br/>
35:16<br/>
because education has been notoriously difficult to sort of break into right um but one of the reasons why everything<br/>
35:23<br/>
education is actually exciting these are the uh sort of let's say other areas<br/>
35:28<br/>
like music which we like as well we've done in an acquisition in that space um it's because it's already very decentralized right so it doesn't<br/>
35:34<br/>
actually have sort of an incumbent structure that you have to fight against because education is already fairly<br/>
35:40<br/>
decentralized but it's already a multi-trillion dollar space however it's<br/>
35:45<br/>
been really difficult to crack because in the past you know how do you sort of add value to that ecosystem and we decided that we<br/>
35:52<br/>
think the best way to begin this approach is like you do with creators but in this case who are the creators of the education space their teachers and<br/>
35:59<br/>
teachers have another element which is similar to when you think about what's happening in um in sort of the other<br/>
36:05<br/>
sort of areas that we focus on which is that there is an Arbitrage which is a teachers actually provide one of the<br/>
36:11<br/>
most important values to society but they are actually the perhaps one of the most underpaid relative to the services<br/>
36:17<br/>
that they offer to society right teachers are chronically underpaid yet they are sort of you know providing<br/>
36:22<br/>
really important services so combine all of that and you start sort of seeing the real potential of what happens when you<br/>
36:29<br/>
actually provide sort of Capital phone information and all the benefits of web3 into that ecosystem and we've seen this<br/>
36:34<br/>
with tinytap you know warm teachers who create content um you know as in the form of nfts that<br/>
36:40<br/>
are already earning income from this are not able to sell that but at a value as<br/>
36:46<br/>
if it was something that of ownership so instead of just getting a thousand dollars of you know rental value per<br/>
36:52<br/>
year they can now sell those for five to ten thousand dollars which you know for a teacher is life-changing money and all<br/>
36:59<br/>
of them are reinvesting back into this which is basically the beginning of a creative economy but within the teacher<br/>
37:05<br/>
infrastructure um so so that's another area we're really excited about and we'll build we'll build that but again you know it's<br/>
37:10<br/>
it's something that we're building and investing in it's not something that we can sort of you know um there's not<br/>
37:16<br/>
enough companies right yeah exactly right so so this is something that we are very hopeful on<br/>
37:21<br/>
um and we will build and Define these new markets as we have done with web3 gaming on four or five years ago very<br/>
37:26<br/>
cool stuff yasu been it has been great having you on I love uh I love diving in<br/>
37:32<br/>
deep on these kind of topics because I feel like you know what we're in the literally uh at the precipice of in<br/>
37:38<br/>
terms of really amazing growth web3 metaverse and what we're going to see in<br/>
37:43<br/>
blockchain uh developments around you know obviously the nft space and others so thanks again we definitely want to<br/>
37:49<br/>
get you back on the show as Anna mocha continues your growth path uh in 2023. thanks for coming on thank you for<br/>
37:55<br/>
having me excellent all right you guys are tuned in maybe on the podcast side of things right here make sure and jump over here<br/>
38:01<br/>
to the YouTube channel this is another great place for you to catch a lot of the graphics sometimes we do chart analysis and really dive deep here on<br/>
38:08<br/>
metaverse Insider as well if you haven't checked out our show techpath crypto do so uh just search Tech pack crypto on<br/>
38:15<br/>
your own podcast uh player or jump over to our YouTube channel at justpull Bear Network and you'll find us there if you<br/>
38:21<br/>
guys want to reach me it is out there on Twitter at Paul Baron we'll catch you next time right here on metaverse Insider</p> in the metaverse what are you…tag:innovations.ning.com,2023-02-13:6537428:Comment:419942023-02-13T02:29:48.893Zchris macraehttps://innovations.ning.com/profile/s0neqm9lsoui
<p>in the metaverse what are you guys planning for 2023 -up interview yat siu jan 2023<br></br> 1:19<br></br> broad Direction basically focusing on everything around digital property rights which is basically the main<br></br>
1:25<br></br>
emphasis you know from our perspective : we believe that digital property is at the center <br></br>
of everything in the open metaverse so we're built in a non-fungible token to play a key role because they're the way in which you can own digital property rights and so from…</p>
<p>in the metaverse what are you guys planning for 2023 -up interview yat siu jan 2023<br/> 1:19<br/>
broad Direction basically focusing on everything around digital property rights which is basically the main<br/>
1:25<br/>
emphasis you know from our perspective : we believe that digital property is at the center <br/>
of everything in the open metaverse so we're built in a non-fungible token to play a key role because they're the way in which you can own digital property rights and so from that perspective we're looking to<br/>
continue to build out these businesses --I think one of the things that's maybe different from four or five<br/>
years ago when we started investing is that the maturity and the stage of the companies involved in obviously much<br/>
deeper right now so even by the end of 2020 there were less than 200 000 people in the world who actually owned<br/>
an NFT obviously that's changed in the last couple of years right and now we know that number obviously is in the<br/>
2:19<br/>
millions of users and continues to accelerate particularly through gaming so that means basically<br/>
2:24<br/>
everything that we continue to invest in is all around sort of what can construct more Network effects on these<br/>
2:30<br/>
non-legical tokens as well as bringing more users into the nft space as in additional property rights so that<br/>
2:36<br/>
continues to be the emphasis and we're building in um but I think one difference would be is that there'll be more emphasis on the<br/>
2:42<br/>
working and investing in companies that can bring in let's say people who are not in web 3 basically into the web 3<br/>
2:48<br/>
space as opposed to really maybe 400 years ago really trying to build more into the native let's say blockchain<br/>
2:54<br/>
slash sort of crypto world that's probably the main difference so yeah Sue when you and your team sit<br/>
3:01<br/>
down and really look at what's happening in metaverse right now a lot of a lot of uh integration into traditional<br/>
3:07<br/>
businesses that are trying to find their way into using blockchain and some of the tool sets for what how nfts might be<br/>
3:13<br/>
used in the future what do you think is the potential growth size in terms of the addressable market for metaverse in<br/>
3:20<br/>
general that can include gaming nfts if you look out on the horizon say over the<br/>
3:26<br/>
next few years into 2030. so I think one of the I mean it really<br/>
3:32<br/>
depends on you know well from my perspective obviously we're very bullish uh some of uh predictions in the market<br/>
3:38<br/>
I think even McKinsey for instance and other ones have predicted that the market will grow to five trillion dollars in size our perspective actually<br/>
3:45<br/>
is that it's actually all together too small but let me sort of first indicate why that is the case right<br/>
3:50<br/>
um and that has to do with the fact that you know we believe that digital copyrights is going to have the same effect as it had in the physical world<br/>
3:57<br/>
right in other words you know our belief basically is that the digital world today is feudal in the sense that there<br/>
4:04<br/>
is no property rights we don't own anything and things like Capital formation and all these things are impossible which is also the reason why<br/>
4:10<br/>
if you look at for instance the digital world today uh in web 2 for instance you know we're literally worth only sort of<br/>
4:16<br/>
you know sales on the dollar right advertising our pool user sort of user Revenue that's generated is worth very<br/>
4:23<br/>
very little again relative terms which is I think basically how you know a sort of rental economy works but if you<br/>
4:29<br/>
actually then take this parallel into actual ownership and we're not talking about that 10 or 20 increase here we're<br/>
4:34<br/>
talking about you know factors of growth that are 30 to 50x right so put that all together into into sort of you know<br/>
4:41<br/>
where we think the world is going and the fact that we are basically already primarily spending time in the digital<br/>
4:46<br/>
world you know we actually think this is a multi-multi trillion dollar space and you know in in sort of the midst of<br/>
4:54<br/>
long-term future you know I think the entire all of our sort of economic activity will anyway exist in the<br/>
4:59<br/>
metaverse and therefore this is worth tens of trillions of dollars over over the uh sort of medium to long term<br/>
5:06<br/>
um now you take a look for instance just at the gaming industry right it's a 200 million dollar industry uh last year<br/>
5:12<br/>
of which basically more than half of it came spending in verb sort of virtual<br/>
5:17<br/>
items which are not items that people own this is a crazy thing right people are spending over 100 billion dollars a<br/>
5:24<br/>
year on digital Goods that they do not own so it's a hundred billion dollar Plus Rental economy now what happens<br/>
5:30<br/>
when you take a rental economy and move it into an ownership economy you know if<br/>
5:36<br/>
you talk about you know sort of mimicking sort of the effects that we have in the physical world that is 2030x<br/>
5:42<br/>
just the gaming industry alone it would be a multi-trillion dollar space already never mind what happens to all other<br/>
5:48<br/>
Industries which we think will add to the effect of uh of of sort of the value that happens when you introduce actual<br/>
5:55<br/>
property rights so there's a couple things there I want to unpack we'll talk about a little bit about the gaming uh industry and and<br/>
6:02<br/>
whether or not we'll see an evolution truly to web3 and blockchain because there is there is some pushback from<br/>
6:07<br/>
traditional gaming and Studios uh we talked to a lot of game makers here that have come over from web 2 are building<br/>
6:13<br/>
now in web3 looking at metaverse as a new platform a mechanism for really<br/>
6:18<br/>
building entertainment and gaming but yet at the same time there is a certain<br/>
6:24<br/>
aspect around the gamers themselves that have continued to kind of push back on them and we'll talk a little bit about<br/>
6:29<br/>
that I want to jump over your top projects uh so this this is a chart that kind of goes into<br/>
6:35<br/>
um where the potential growth is here obviously metaverse is kind of focused in uh quite heavily here uh and and you<br/>
6:44<br/>
can kind of see the gaming sector this is a mutable coming in infrastructure um what social might play into this this<br/>
6:50<br/>
again was looking at 2022 that was coming from massari's Stadium Ryan selkis over there does a good job with<br/>
6:56<br/>
this then you get into the funds with Investments and you see all of the additional uh you know mechanisms that<br/>
7:03<br/>
are investing in this sector at the same time when you go down and look at I think it's a little yeah most<br/>
7:09<br/>
active investors right here you guys of course being number one uh Shima comes in digital currency group x21 Spartan<br/>
7:15<br/>
hashed Etc so you can see a lot of these my question to you is when and I think<br/>
7:20<br/>
for the most part people know that annamoca repositioned from what was a<br/>
7:25<br/>
two billion dollar fund into a one billion dollar fund somewhat relevant to what the current market situations are<br/>
7:32<br/>
but when you look at this out in 2023 do you feel like this is still a growth<br/>
7:38<br/>
year for metaverse so I think it's going to be a growth here for metaverse for many years to<br/>
7:44<br/>
come still um obviously we'd have to talk about the metrics in terms of how we Define growth because there's some parallels around<br/>
7:51<br/>
how sort of when you look at for instance the.com bubble when that sort of burst in terms of IPO prices<br/>
7:56<br/>
fundamentally though it can change the number of people that were joining the internet the growth was still happening<br/>
8:01<br/>
people were using email more people using you know basically e-commerce more and people were doing all these things<br/>
8:06<br/>
more but of course the prices may have run ahead of itself if you look at you know back in you know and then you know<br/>
8:13<br/>
my own experience you know I was actually with the previous company our place you know what we're building back<br/>
8:18<br/>
in the early internet days and one of the interesting things was I said we used to joke about sort of you know you<br/>
8:23<br/>
know all you know people are sort of you know buying pet products online that seems like a silly idea I think pets.com and so on but you know what that's what<br/>
8:29<br/>
we do today yeah so and and many of the businesses that you know we thought that<br/>
8:35<br/>
basically might have been too early which they were actually turned out to be that way anyway right so everything<br/>
8:40<br/>
we do online many of the businesses that failed basically back in the day actually fundamentally were maybe the<br/>
8:46<br/>
right idea but maybe just a little bit too early I think some of that sort of some of that is playing out a little bit I think<br/>
8:53<br/>
in the in the web 3 space as well or but because the token element basically creates an element where the capital<br/>
8:59<br/>
side of things may have run ahead right so if you look at 2021 and you compare it to 2022 for instance you say oh look<br/>
9:06<br/>
at that right the beginning of 2032 versus where it ended up that looks like basically it may have come down in<br/>
9:12<br/>
terms of value right but when you basically measure that against you know really just even the last sort of two<br/>
9:18<br/>
and a half years and then four years or even six years or even eight years then generally speaking it's been a chart<br/>
9:24<br/>
where it shows that has been growth because fundamentally users are still entering the space and so so I think<br/>
9:30<br/>
it's it's all a matter of sort of perspective that you take from from the timing standpoint now in terms of the<br/>
9:36<br/>
value of what we're looking to remains here first of all you know I think valuations themselves have come down<br/>
9:41<br/>
into the market in terms of fear terms um you know this is an important metric to understand like for instance when you<br/>
9:47<br/>
look at the prices of a four day right generally speaking it's around 80 East you know maybe 75 or sometimes you know<br/>
9:53<br/>
90 East depending that price actually hasn't changed what has changed is the price of Eve so from that perspective<br/>
10:00<br/>
again you see that uh the sort of let's call it in the more native currencies uh<br/>
10:05<br/>
it would actually continue to maintain its value but the price of these basically has come down and therefore it<br/>
10:11<br/>
appears from the outset from Fear perspectives that has come down but actually again if you look at for instance um not just in terms of the<br/>
10:17<br/>
volume of trading the activity in the space last year close to I think it was 22 billion dollars of nft sales took<br/>
10:25<br/>
place in 2022 which by the way is very similar to 2021 in terms of fear terms<br/>
10:31<br/>
so what happened well in 2021 there was a higher sort of theater sales value<br/>
10:37<br/>
because of currency values we have of increase but the actual quantity and users engagement and so on that happened<br/>
10:43<br/>
2022 actually continued to be quite strong and you had activity also in the multiple chains you know in 2021 also<br/>
10:49<br/>
you had almost all sales only happen on open sea but in 2022 you had magic Eden<br/>
10:54<br/>
you had x2i2 you had blur you had you know even unit swap got into the nft<br/>
10:59<br/>
game right so so everything basically sort of grew and became more diverse and more competitive as a space but to me<br/>
11:06<br/>
these are all great signals or that's developing all right so again back to back to your point is is that your<br/>
11:14<br/>
thinking is that we're already starting to see a pretty heavy adoption level event that's occurring right now within<br/>
11:21<br/>
businesses that are trying to figure out models in which nft integration utility<br/>
11:26<br/>
use case what do you think would be the next layer when you think about it so a<br/>
11:31<br/>
brand like Starbucks well let's just say Nike and Starbucks are the two poster children to look at with artifact and<br/>
11:38<br/>
Nike they they clearly seem to go be going the fashion route with Starbucks it's more about Community loyalty<br/>
11:45<br/>
something that they're trying to create around the existing kind of uh digital ecosystem that they already have<br/>
11:52<br/>
what do you think is going to be the next piece that will really kind of answer some of the deeper questions for<br/>
11:59<br/>
these you know big brands or small Brands to say this is the next step for us web 3 is it and here's why<br/>
12:07<br/>
so many of the things that I think the most powerful aspect of why I went through matters for every brand it<br/>
12:14<br/>
doesn't matter big or small even personal Brands you know even small restaurants for that matter if you will<br/>
12:19<br/>
right um is the fact that through web3 actually they are going to be able to sort of uh accrue different ownership of<br/>
12:26<br/>
the customers that they're serving and one of the reasons that nfts for instance have become so powerful is in<br/>
12:32<br/>
the form of these membership nfts that's sort of one of those Beginnings but really what the management fee is is the<br/>
12:38<br/>
ability for brand to basically build out your own social graph except now you know who those customers are and now you<br/>
12:45<br/>
can reach them and they can reach you and you don't need an intermediary like a Facebook for instance where you know<br/>
12:50<br/>
if you have to retarget your customers you have to pay Facebook for them because actually turns out that customer is never yours or that Instagram handle<br/>
12:57<br/>
that has you know maybe a hundred thousand or a million followers for instance you know again it's not actually yours you don't have control<br/>
13:02<br/>
over that in web3 that completely changes that narrative but it also does something else which is that you now<br/>
13:08<br/>
able to sort of peer into actually what that person does so you may not necessarily know this person's name but<br/>
13:14<br/>
through the wallet you can actually understand sort of what this person might be interested in and what he's purchasing or what he's doing and and I<br/>
13:21<br/>
think this part is where it becomes really really powerful because now I actually have the ability to sort of<br/>
13:27<br/>
look at everything that the customer is doing and I can address that customer directly but it also means that someone<br/>
13:32<br/>
else can also basically compete for that same Customer because he or she could see basically the same data that I can<br/>
13:39<br/>
so it creates a completely different framework which means that forces actually every brand to participate in<br/>
13:45<br/>
this in this way because you can't sort of not not enter that space because<br/>
13:50<br/>
everyone else is benefiting from this and frankly when Nike and Adidas and those big brands are entering the space<br/>
13:55<br/>
all of the other brands already looking at it and say okay how do I play in this one you know one of the sort of sort of<br/>
14:01<br/>
biggest sort of new job descriptions that we're seeing around is like chief metaverse officer nft expert foreign<br/>
14:21<br/>
Specialists and sort of you know app designers and so on it's kind of the same same phase where people are sort of<br/>
14:27<br/>
really trying to sort of find that talent and it's hard as well because there's not that much talent around it people most people that have that are<br/>
14:34<br/>
into space Maybe in the space for the last six months maybe one year I mean even if you're in you know if you've<br/>
14:40<br/>
entered in the beginning of 2022 in the nft space um you know you're already considered<br/>
14:45<br/>
somewhat of an expert right uh if you think about it right so so that's the that's the space where it isn't and so<br/>
14:51<br/>
so there's a this is a dearth of time for the time here which I think obviously will change over time uh and<br/>
14:57<br/>
so so that's all happening and one of the reasons you might not feel that there's as much activity as it could be<br/>
15:02<br/>
in strength and they're all still trying to figure it out because who are they going to talk to right and we have so<br/>
15:08<br/>
many incoming requests to sort of say can you help us can you work with us and practically we can't handle all of them<br/>
15:13<br/>
right so we pass into our portfolios but even they can't handle the demand that's out there one of the things you'll find<br/>
15:19<br/>
is that in our space everyone is still hiring for the for the for the most part and is trying to grow the space because<br/>
15:25<br/>
there's so much demand yeah it does remind me a lot of kind of the birth of what happened with the<br/>
15:31<br/>
internet when we started seeing really interesting websites being developed for the first time I think every business<br/>
15:36<br/>
was out there trying to figure that out I think you're right it has that kind of uh unique signature that is starting to<br/>
15:43<br/>
lean into what what the new technology might be going forward I want to talk about onboarding because this is one of<br/>
15:49<br/>
the sections and areas of I think as we start to see because we study every nft<br/>
15:54<br/>
drop there is on platforms we look at all sorts of Integrations into toys and<br/>
16:00<br/>
gaming and one thing that I've noticed more and more evident is there are<br/>
16:05<br/>
either really slick onboarding tool sets in place or there are not and it feels<br/>
16:11<br/>
like that seems to be the one barrier to entry that could cause a little bit of a Slowdown<br/>
16:16<br/>
how soon do you think we'll really start to see onboarding so much more slick the<br/>
16:23<br/>
whether it's the UI in the ux that just makes it easy for an average person to<br/>
16:28<br/>
just jump into this space with whatever brand that they might be you know visiting at the time<br/>
16:33<br/>
so I think we're seeing that already developed the technology to do so actually is there when you think about<br/>
16:39<br/>
sort of custodial wallets for instance to make the onboarding experience easy and and I see very similar to sort of<br/>
16:46<br/>
how the internet developed if you remember in the 90s we actually used to have Dominic modems and we used to sort<br/>
16:51<br/>
of you know connect and even with Broadband we had to First sort of you know basically type in a username and a<br/>
16:57<br/>
password and actually it was a pretty unfriendly uh unfriendly sort of uh sort of onboarding experience back in the<br/>
17:03<br/>
early days of the internet and today you know when you go online you don't even think about it right you just just you<br/>
17:09<br/>
know call someone you know uh they basically just install the line and you have the internet oh somehow magically<br/>
17:14<br/>
appears I think that's basically where it's gonna eventually end up in terms of the sort of the ease of it but there is<br/>
17:21<br/>
one thing that you know we want to make sure that people don't lose sight of which is custody or self-custody of your<br/>
17:27<br/>
assets right understanding how that works and so I think the barrier here really is around understanding that part<br/>
17:32<br/>
because what we don't want to see happen is that everyone basically just sort of hands over the assets to sort of you<br/>
17:38<br/>
know third parties and doesn't know or understand that actually self-custody is<br/>
17:43<br/>
actually a powerful reason as to how you can get these sort of network effects and benefit from them because you know<br/>
17:48<br/>
it's because of the fact that you had to have some consider data assets that you have this Freedom right and so so that's<br/>
17:54<br/>
the part that's important and we think for instance gaming will play an important part in educating that and so<br/>
17:59<br/>
this is really the tension here between how do we basically roll the space as large as we can but still have people<br/>
18:06<br/>
sort of understand respect and sort of appreciate that self-custody aspects the<br/>
18:11<br/>
fact that you actually want to have sort of decentralization as opposed to too much centralization because if we hand<br/>
18:17<br/>
over all of our assets to to any company for that matter even even let's say someone like ourselves we actually go<br/>
18:23<br/>
against the mission and we will actually end up creating you know a sort of Monopoly effects that we think would be<br/>
18:29<br/>
detrimental having said that you can't actually build these natural narrative effects if you build inside a wall<br/>
18:34<br/>
Gardener right which means that naturally that's a good point yeah that's a good point because you're<br/>
18:40<br/>
you're exactly right there are some Brands out there that are building somewhat in the same framework that<br/>
18:46<br/>
they've built in web 2 which are very wild garden you know approaches we haven't seen Apple jump into this space<br/>
18:52<br/>
just yet I still believe that there's going to be a play Here by Apple but when you look at Apple in general and<br/>
18:59<br/>
and just what they've been able to do to deter Innovation it feels like when it<br/>
19:04<br/>
comes to web3 and nft use cases in in and within apps obviously we know the<br/>
19:09<br/>
epic games situation and kind of the dynamic around that you guys have your own story of mobile gaming that also uh<br/>
19:17<br/>
kind of ran into some challenges with apple do you think this is something that the majors like apple meta maybe<br/>
19:25<br/>
Google even though I don't necessarily see them completely playing into this but meta and apple could definitely be<br/>
19:30<br/>
in the crosshairs for massive explosion through Mass adoption but I fear that<br/>
19:37<br/>
it's going to fall into a Walled Garden where we aren't going to see you know self-custody uh scenarios play out where<br/>
19:44<br/>
do you think that will and how do you think that will affect the market so generally speaking for incumbent<br/>
19:51<br/>
players like uh sort of facebook slash meta or or apple all those companies I<br/>
19:56<br/>
think they're facing your traditional innovators dilemma meaning that one of the challenges that they want to have is<br/>
20:02<br/>
you know they have to open up their platforms to benefit from this uh to grow with us but that means disrupting<br/>
20:07<br/>
and basically a part of that business or a major part of the business that has always been around and centralization<br/>
20:12<br/>
and control I mean after all if the App Store suddenly became completely open um<br/>
20:18<br/>
participated and there was an actual Democratic process right um then then you know you know what does<br/>
20:25<br/>
it mean for apple as a company for instance that would be really difficult but one could also argue and I think<br/>
20:31<br/>
this is the whole point about sort of what epic is arguing for and many other companies is that to what extent is it appropriate for companies like apple to<br/>
20:38<br/>
have the kind of control that they have after all people have ruled on internet service provider as for instance to say<br/>
20:44<br/>
well you can't actually restrict access either because it is an element of a public good right so you know obviously<br/>
20:49<br/>
there's there's debates for and against right um but I actually think what's going to happen is as as it always<br/>
20:55<br/>
happens is that sort of you know good old capitalism and Market forces are going to basically Force these changes<br/>
21:00<br/>
so basically you either sort of you know you have to survive otherwise you will die and the the economics are pretty<br/>
21:07<br/>
straightforward one of the reasons why we think inference is really difficult for Facebook sort of to be able to sort<br/>
21:13<br/>
of build a closed metaverse in the in in the longer long term I know I made this comment where I said you know even 10<br/>
21:19<br/>
billion dollars a year isn't going to be enough is because it hasn't got to do with how much they're investing in space<br/>
21:24<br/>
it has to do with the end user as an end user I have you know to build on meta I<br/>
21:30<br/>
have to you know basically surrender close to 50 of all my value I think it's 47.5 that they have to tax why do they<br/>
21:37<br/>
have to charge us tax because they have to rebuild this entire infrastructure that web3 already has that has already<br/>
21:43<br/>
shared across the network remember every user that's using web3 is already sharing the cost of gas exactly funding<br/>
21:50<br/>
the infrastructure right and you know many people sometimes I think missed the point to say well there's no gas costs on them you know better there's no gas<br/>
21:56<br/>
costs on this other watching but who cares if that particular system doesn't make you that kind of money right I mean<br/>
22:01<br/>
we're happily Living in America versus Africa or happily living in the in in<br/>
22:06<br/>
and you know Europe as opposed to some other place around the world we have to pay 20 30 or if you look at Scandinavian<br/>
22:13<br/>
countries you know 50 or 60 taxes why because we can generate the you know<br/>
22:18<br/>
more value there and we get you know come into its services for it but you know when you basically are paying<br/>
22:24<br/>
simply 30 to 40 to 50 just to exist on the platform that's just way too much which basically is the highest kind of<br/>
22:32<br/>
tax that we know what happens in countries that over tax their citizens lower economic activity lower value<br/>
22:38<br/>
right and that's basically uh what's happening here so that means that metal<br/>
22:44<br/>
or apple for that matter if they want to play in the space and actually be a player but still charge the same tax<br/>
22:49<br/>
they need to provide a service equivalent that is worth paying that and that's going to be hard but for instance<br/>
22:56<br/>
on Sandbox we we can build a really big business by only charging five percent right so you know that's between you<br/>
23:03<br/>
know so so how do you if 95 of the value goes to the the uh end user then you have to have a<br/>
23:12<br/>
really compelling use case to say well you got to pay me 50 of the value which means that they have to be able to show<br/>
23:18<br/>
much more value growth uh in as a result of that which you know is going to be challenging so I think<br/>
23:24<br/>
the I think uh they have to they have to sort of go open or or unfortunately uh<br/>
23:29<br/>
they will just go by the wayside what would you say is the probability of that happening dude I mean I feel like<br/>
23:35<br/>
Apple's got a strategy in place whether or not they're open enough to really kind of change their methodology of how<br/>
23:41<br/>
they're going to run their business units in the future still questionable meta I feel like might be a little bit<br/>
23:47<br/>
more in the camp of finally an a network that may show some windows for opening who would you say of those two that<br/>
23:54<br/>
might come to the table first oh I would say definitely uh Facebook meta would come to the table much sooner<br/>
24:01<br/>
one of them first of all they themselves are feeling the pinch of being platform dependent on Apple right right so<br/>
24:07<br/>
there's there is this case of uh sort of the enemy of the enemies my friend<br/>
24:12<br/>
um and there's a little bit of that situation where they find themselves remember also though unlike Apple uh<br/>
24:18<br/>
Mark Zuckerberg actually does understand the Wimpy space more than I think people appreciate he did try you know basically<br/>
24:24<br/>
cryptocurrency with liberal uh he's he's built the blockchain team that you know obviously he left because they weren't<br/>
24:30<br/>
able to sort of realize their blockchain dreams within Facebook but it basically burst basically platforms such as uh<br/>
24:36<br/>
such as atos and misting labs and so on right so so there's obviously an appreciation of sort of the blockchain<br/>
24:44<br/>
Technologies and what web3 can provide in in the meta sort of uh Universe versus an apple they're trying to figure<br/>
24:51<br/>
out a way to tax it or maybe even halt its growth or whatever that policy would be that are looking at it with you know<br/>
24:58<br/>
a much more sort of I guess a wary eye I would say um the one player to look for that I think is going to be an interesting one<br/>
25:03<br/>
is Google because Google hasn't really come out with you know with a position generally for and against you see that Google on<br/>
25:10<br/>
one side obviously has done stuff with you know a network validation and with<br/>
25:16<br/>
services and so on so there is the technical side that depends on embracing it um but when it comes to for instance the<br/>
25:22<br/>
platform whether it's Google play or you know what how does Google search think of this all these things you know you<br/>
25:27<br/>
you know that sort of broadly speaking Google actually does well the more open the network is right I mean it has to be<br/>
25:34<br/>
open for the search search engine to work right um and you know Facebook was actually very much a threat to Google because<br/>
25:41<br/>
actually they wouldn't allow it to be indexed and therefore you know basically Google no longer function uh it doesn't<br/>
25:47<br/>
function within the Facebook or for instance right so so in that sense you would say that shouldn't Google actually<br/>
25:52<br/>
be more open towards web free and I would say that philosophically and shipping is strongly aligned but again<br/>
25:57<br/>
they are an income in business they have business lens to protect so it's never a straightforward and so I think they<br/>
26:03<br/>
themselves are going through the innovators dilemma but all of the big players I think they have very much an incentive I think to build in web 3 more<br/>
26:10<br/>
so than maybe even the other two yeah I think this year will probably unveil some very interesting bedfellows<br/>
26:17<br/>
in in metaverse web 3 and what we'll see here uh in terms of advancements because listen we're at a kind of a Tipping<br/>
26:23<br/>
Point where early stage is going to have to be established right now by a lot of these incumbents that have you know<br/>
26:29<br/>
that's kind of been their DNA in the past I want to wrap up here with kind of a low medium high probability of where<br/>
26:38<br/>
you think these particular topics will be going on metaverse web 3 nfts uh<br/>
26:44<br/>
first I want to jump into uh gaming so when you just think about gaming web 2 Gaming and the traditional gaming<br/>
26:51<br/>
ecosystem that is today is that a low medium or high probability of moving<br/>
26:56<br/>
quickly into the blockchain Say by 2027.<br/>
27:02<br/>
oh I think it's high and okay all right and and but one of the things that um I<br/>
27:08<br/>
think uh depending on who your audience is is that you had mentioned earlier that this pushback by sort of you know<br/>
27:14<br/>
basically getting into German that is very much an American and slash Western narrative<br/>
27:19<br/>
um so to take a look for instance what's happening in Asia but every major Korean game company for instance is all in on<br/>
27:25<br/>
the matter already moving I mean yeah you know yeah in Japan as well I mean just just to be clear even the Prime<br/>
27:30<br/>
Minister of Japan in Japan actually has made web 3 and developers National agenda right uh when you look<br/>
27:37<br/>
at for instance Hong Kong traditionally Hong Kong people have looked at Hong Kong and said oh isn't that part of China and are they sort of against<br/>
27:43<br/>
crypto and so on well Hong Kong just launched their first Bitcoin and ethereum ETF about before the end of the<br/>
27:49<br/>
year uh and our financial secretary has just weak again reinforced the statement<br/>
27:54<br/>
that Hong Kong will be a virtual asset digital assets Hub and leader in the space right and has come up with virtual<br/>
28:01<br/>
asset policies to support that so you know so you have really an interesting situation where Asia is moving full<br/>
28:07<br/>
steam ahead and gamers in this part of the world are very much sort of open to<br/>
28:13<br/>
this and love the idea of owning additional assets whereas I think in the west there's some reservations around it<br/>
28:19<br/>
but I think it comes down to sort of again the concerns from free to play gaming was the same uh actually back in<br/>
28:25<br/>
2010 2011 free to play gaming was you know adopted in Asia first and many of the early Innovations in that space came<br/>
28:31<br/>
in Asia um and and in in in the west actually a lot of people resisted free to play<br/>
28:36<br/>
gaming you know they said oh this is going to corrupt gameplay you know people are going to be sort of you know<br/>
28:41<br/>
uh sort of it won't be as much fun and you know blah blah blah and of course today free to play gaming is the dominant form of gaming uh through<br/>
28:48<br/>
mobile gaming as opposed to uh as opposed to sort of you know the traditional subscription or sort of you<br/>
28:54<br/>
know pay for software so we think the same Evolution will happen I think there's one more thing to bear in mind here which is that in America in<br/>
29:00<br/>
particular there has been a shifting narrative uh which you know again maybe a decade ago I would not have thought<br/>
29:06<br/>
possible which is essentially amongst Young Americans there is a more and more anti-capitalist team<br/>
29:15<br/>
so when they look at the digital item ownership it's not that they reject ownership it's that they reject digital<br/>
29:22<br/>
capitalism because they're concerned that it's going to bring the same type of situations that they have in the<br/>
29:27<br/>
physical world well you know in the physical world capitalism has to work for me for me then why shouldn't work in the digital world and does it mean that<br/>
29:33</p>